Thank you for being part of my session at TLOMA 2025

The After Show

In the latest episode of The After Show, hosts dive into Shawn Kanungo's thought-provoking session at TLOMA 2025

KEY TAKEAWAYS (an AI-Output with Hallucinations)

AI AGENTS & AGentic workflows

  • n8n - Workflow automation

  • Cursor - Coding agent

  • Comet by Perplexity - Best Agentic Browser - browse the internet with AI and get stuff done

  • Lindy - Build an AI agent - great for AI automation

LLM

Text-to-App

  • Lovable - Build any app with agentic reasoning (best at front-end)

  • v0 by Vercel - Text-to-Webpage (really good front-end)

  • Replit - Idea-to-App (best for full app)

Text-to-IMAGE/VIDEO

Research & other

  • NotebookLM - Research and the two AI podcast hosts that you see above :)

  • Google AI Studio - Real-time AI co-presence

  • Clay - AI Outbound Sales | Generating lists of emails and sending cold outreach

  • Figjam - Whiteboarding Ideas | Brainstorming | Organizing

Briefing: Innovation, AI, and the Agentic Era

Executive Summary

This document synthesizes the core arguments and strategic insights regarding the current technological revolution, which is characterized not as a simple "AI moment" but as the dawn of the "agentic era." The primary thesis is that we are moving beyond generative AI for content creation into a new phase defined by autonomous AI agents capable of action, representing a 100 to 1,000-fold increase in transformative potential. The most valuable organizations of the future will not be AI-first but "human-first, AI-powered," using this technology to amplify unique human skills, creativity, and craft.

The central challenge for leaders is no longer a deficit of knowledge—as AI copilots make intelligence abundant—but a deficit of boldness to act. The concept of "infinite leverage" is introduced, suggesting that individuals and teams can now achieve far more with less by utilizing an escalating pyramid of tools, culminating in an "army of digital employees" in the form of AI agents. To foster the necessary environment for this transformation, an innovation culture must be built on two pillars: a deep commitment of care for people and an institutional willingness to embrace failure. In a world where AI erodes digital trust, competitive advantage will be found at two extremes: radical, frictionless efficiency or deliberately slower, high-touch, human-centric experiences. The middle ground is a "black hole of mediocrity." The ultimate imperative is for leaders to disrupt their own successful models, as remarkable leadership is defined not by optimizing the past but by actively creating the future.

1. The Agentic Revolution: A Paradigm Shift Beyond Content

The current discourse on AI, while pervasive, largely underestimates the impending transformation. The period from late 2022 to 2024 focused on generative AI for content creation—refining emails, generating images, and aiding tasks. The primary beneficiaries were often students. However, the next phase, beginning in 2025, is the "agentic era," centered on autonomous action.

• From Generation to Action: This new revolution moves from AI that creates static outputs to AI agents that can perform continuous, autonomous actions. This is described as a leap in value of "100 to a thousand X" compared to the generative AI revolution.

• The Agentic Spectrum: The concept of an "agentic spectrum" describes a range of workflows, from those with no autonomy to agents that are "always on 24/7." For the first time, software can not only think but also "get stuO done" and act on its own.

• Redefining Work: This shift rewires the nature of work. The traditional advice to "begin with the end in mind" is replaced by the ability to "build with the end in mind." Instead of starting with a blank page, one can now begin with "100 AI generated analyses, 100 AI generator campaigns, 100 AI generated strategies," using these as the starting point for the creative process. As a result, "in 2025, the most dangerous skill in the world is just coming up with an idea."

"AI, without great data is like a car without fuel. But this should not prevent you from starting. People say, I need to define my processes. I need to define my data before I start experimenting with this. I fundamentally disagree. This space is moving so quickly that we need to build the muscle around this."

2. Practical Applications and Demonstrations of the Agentic Era

The transition to an agentic era is not theoretical; it is being demonstrated through accessible tools that allow for the rapid creation of sophisticated applications and workflows.

Application Type

Example

Tools Used

Key Insight

Rapid App Development

A personalized recommendation app to help a customer choose the right Citibank credit card from 26 options.

Gemini (for prompt generation), Loveable (for text-to-app creation)

Complex, front-end development projects that once cost half a million dollars and required global teams can now be prototyped in minutes, fundamentally rewiring how projects are initiated.

Personalized AI Agents

A J.P. Morgan retirement planning agent created with a personal likeness and voice, capable of providing advice and translating it into other languages like Japanese.

N/A

Always-on, 24/7 digital employees can be created to scale personalized customer interaction and service, breaking language barriers and offering constant availability.

Reinventing Digital Assets

Recreating a professional Gucci advertisement by taking a photo of a person, describing an outfit from Gucci's Instagram, and using AI to generate a new, styled image and video.

Midjourney, Gemini's nano banana model, Runway, Final Cut Pro

Anything that is digital—an app, a website, an image—can be replicated and reinvented by AI. This transforms marketing, content creation, and personalization.

Automated Business Workflows

A Malaysian shop owner built an agentic system using WhatsApp to automate employee attendance tracking, scheduling, and daily priority updates.

Lindy (workflow creation tool)

The rest of the world may adopt agents faster than North America due to a lack of legacy infrastructure. The agent can become the interface layer, meaning humans interact with the agent, which then interacts with backend software like a CRM.

3. Core Strategic Imperatives for Leadership

Navigating the agentic era requires a fundamental shift in strategy, focusing on leverage, culture, and customer experience.

A. Embrace Infinite Leverage

The traditional link between effort and output is breaking. The new model is based on leverage, which allows for disproportionate results.

• The Pyramid of Leverage: A hierarchy of leverage exists, which leaders must learn to ascend:

    1. Individuals (your own brain)

    2. Teams (multiple brains)

    3. Media (storytelling)

    4. Software (automated workflows)

    5. Large Language Models (a tireless analyst)

    6. AI Agents (an army of digital employees)

• Boldness over Knowledge: The old adage "knowledge is power" is obsolete in an age of AI copilots. Power now lies with those who are bold enough to act on available information.

B. Cultivate a Culture of Innovation

A high-agency, innovative culture is not an accident. It is built on two core principles.

1. Deep Commitment and Care: The greatest strategy is to "care deeply" about employees, who will in turn care deeply for customers. The story of a Dubai hotel illustrates this: an employee provided an extraordinary wake-up call service (including a gentle knock on the door) because the hotel demonstrated profound care for its staff, such as inviting their parents for a weekend stay. This deep care created trust and dedication.

2. Willingness to Embrace Failure: When organizations incentivize people for "taking shots," they will take more shots. An anecdote from Deloitte describes a leader orchestrating a standing ovation for an innovation team whose ambitious projects were mostly failures. This act demonstrated that the effort and the attempt were valued, fostering the psychological safety needed for true innovation.

C. Navigate the Erosion of Trust and Master "Friction"

AI's ability to create sophisticated deepfakes and synthetic media marks the "end of trust" in the digital realm. This forces organizations to make a strategic choice about their customer experience.

• Two Winning Strategies: In the future, only two types of organizations will win:

    ◦ Frictionless: Hyper-efficient, on-demand services (e.g., Amazon, McDonald's).

    ◦ Friction-filled: Companies that deliberately slow things down to create meaningful, memorable, and human-centric experiences.

• The Black Hole of Mediocrity: The middle ground between these two extremes is untenable. Processes must be either incredibly efficient or deeply human.

• Craft over Speed: The artistic director of Hermès provides a powerful analogy, stating, "We're about craft, We're not machines... speed is destructuring value." This highlights the value of patience and "making things right" in an era of immediate satisfaction. The core takeaway is that in an AI-driven world, "the experience is the brand."

4. Overcoming Inertia: Work Scared Until You Become Scary

Fear of AI is a natural reaction, but it stems from a lack of engagement. Immersion is the antidote to fear.

• Engagement Dispels Fear: Every individual who has immersed themselves in AI technology becomes proficient and empowered, asking "what can I build?" rather than fearing job loss. The advice is to "work scared until you become dangerous."

• The Gym Analogy: AI is like a gym filled with complex machines. It doesn't matter which tool one starts with; what matters is showing up consistently. With practice, the tools "become light in your hand." The most important tool is the one that "scans you in"—the act of starting.

• Historical Precedent: Fear of new technology is not new. Bicycles were feared to give women too much freedom (leading to the invention of the condition "Bikeface"), telephones were thought to threaten concert halls, and radio waves were believed to be lethal. The real danger is not the technology itself, but the "people that are using technology" for malicious purposes like deepfakes, automated lobbying, and synthetic relationships.

5. The Ultimate Challenge: Self-Disruption

The most difficult yet rewarding act for a successful organization is to go from "100 to zero"—to willingly disrupt itself.

• Remarkable vs. Good Leadership: An executive from Coca-Cola shared a critical insight: the company's biggest disruptor is not a competitor like Prime, but the absence of leadership willing to reinvent.

• The Call to Action: The final and most pressing question for any leader is not about market trends or competitors, but an internal one: "Are you willing to disrupt yourself?" Success depends on the willingness to unlearn, reimagine, and reinvent, even when the current model is profitable.

6. Key Quotes & Concepts

• On Action: "Work scared until you become dangerous."

• On Ideas: "The most dangerous skill in 2025? Just having an idea."

• On Strategy: "The greatest strategy in the world is to care deeply... The experience is the brand."

• On Leadership: "Good leaders optimize the past... remarkable leaders create the future."

• On Leverage: "Leverage beats hustle all day long."

• On Boldness: "Super intelligence without boldness is just called potential."

• On the Future: "An agentic enterprise is human-first, AI-powered."

The AI Revolution:

  • Generative AI's Potential: Shawn highlights how AI, especially generative AI, is transforming work by democratizing it. He draws parallels with the internet's impact on knowledge, emphasizing that AI will revolutionize how tasks are performed.

  • Generative AI Era (2023-2024)

    • Shawn recaps how ChatGPT launched in late 2022 and captured the world’s attention.

    • 2023 and 2024 became the era of “generative AI,” with widespread use of tools like ChatGPT for writing, image generation, deep fakes, etc.

    Transition to 2025: The Agentic Era

    • The speaker asserts that the “generative AI revolution” is now “over.”

    • We’re entering a new wave in 2025, referred to as the “agentic” revolution, or the agentic era.

    • Key premise: AI agents will be the next huge disruptor, providing 10x to 1000x the value of generative AI alone.

    Why Agents?

    • An agent is software that can autonomously perform tasks on behalf of humans—mimicking what human employees might do but never sleeping or stopping.

    • Nvidia’s CEO Jensen Huang repeatedly referenced “agents” in his CES talk, highlighting their importance.

    Agents as the New Conversational Layer

    • In the ’90s, businesses needed websites.

    • In the 2000s-2010s, businesses needed apps and social media channels.

    • In 2025 and beyond, agents will become a critical “conversational layer” for organizations (internally and externally).

    • Companies will race to build their own brand-specific AI agents, and the challenge will be how to differentiate those agents.

  • AI marks "the end of trust" as it becomes harder to distinguish between AI-generated and human-created content. Shawn warns about the erosion of trust due to AI's ability to create indistinguishable deep fakes and simulations.

  • Shift from Knowledge Workers to Value Creators: As AI becomes more embedded in businesses, the most valuable jobs will no longer be knowledge-based but will center around creating value in new and innovative ways. Leaders must focus on being innovators, not just managing efficiencies​

  • We live in an age of "infinite leverage" where individuals can do more with less using various tools and resources.

  • AI as a Starting Point: The concept "the end is now the beginning" highlights a shift in how we approach creative and development processes. Rather than seeing AI-generated outputs as final products, they are considered starting points that inspire and guide further human creativity.

  • AI is the next communication layer: Just like the internet, websites, and apps, AI agents will become ubiquitous, transforming how we interact with clients and information. Kanungo predicts, "By the end of next year, every company in this room will have one AI agent or multiple or hundreds."

  • Iterative Creation: By generating numerous initial ideas or drafts using AI, the creative process becomes iterative. This allows for a broad exploration of possibilities before honing in on the final deliverable through human refinement and creativity.

  • Rapid Prototyping: The example of generating a hundred websites, apps, or analyses with the help of AI emphasizes the efficiency and speed with which initial concepts can be developed. This rapid prototyping accelerates the innovation cycle.

  • Creative Catalyst: AI serves as a catalyst for innovation by providing a multitude of starting points. It breaks the traditional linear progression of project development and encourages a more dynamic and flexible approach

  • AI-Driven Efficiency: Tools like Midjourney can generate multiple creative options for advertisements in seconds, providing companies with the flexibility to test and optimize their campaigns efficiently

The Concept of DEEPLY CARING:

  • Reliability and genuine care are foundational to building trust, both in technology and human interactions.

  • Exceptional service goes beyond basic expectations, creating memorable experiences that differentiate a business.

  • Personalized attention and proactive problem-solving significantly enhance customer satisfaction and loyalty.

  • Investing in employee well-being and growth fosters a positive work culture, leading to increased job satisfaction and performance.

  • Recognizing and valuing employees' contributions, even extending to their families, can create strong emotional connections to the workplace.

  • Empowerment is a two-pronged approach: providing cutting-edge tools (like AI) and demonstrating deep care for individuals.

  • Genuine care is a strategic business advantage, driving both customer retention and employee innovation.

  • Creating a culture of care can transform service delivery, employee engagement, and ultimately, business outcomes.

  • The ripple effect of care extends beyond immediate interactions, influencing long-term relationships with both customers and employees.

  • Innovation thrives in environments where individuals feel valued, supported, and equipped with the right tools.

  • Care for Employees = Care for Customers: Organizations that deeply care for their employees tend to deliver superior customer service, as employee satisfaction directly translates to customer trust and satisfaction

    The Importance of Human-Centered Leadership

    • People Over Projects: A leadership philosophy that prioritizes people, such as letting employees take vacations despite client demands, fosters loyalty and long-term value for the business​.

    • High-Agency Cultures: Empowering people by combining technological tools with people-centric care creates "high-agency" employees who are proactive, innovative, and committed to the company’s mission​.

The Concept of Friction:

He advocates for maintaining trust through human-centric, meaningful, and memorable experiences.

  • Bringing Back Friction: In an increasingly frictionless world, Shawn argues for the value of friction in creating deeper, more authentic connections. He stresses that community management companies, unlike tech companies, thrive on trust and relationships, not just efficiency.

  • In a frictionless world, we need more friction.

  • Companies will win by being either extremely frictionless or extremely human - the middle ground is "the black hole of mediocrity."

Are you willing to look like a joke?

Shawn suggests that true innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort - what he calls "the darkness." This idea challenges the common view that innovation is solely about achieving specific outcomes or results.

By focusing on identity rather than outcomes, Kanungo seems to be advocating for a mindset shift. He's suggesting that being an innovator is more about who you are and how you approach challenges, rather than just what you produce. This approach emphasizes qualities like curiosity, resilience, and willingness to take risks.

The question "Are you willing to be the innovator?" is provocative. It asks whether one is ready to:

  1. Embrace uncertainty and potential failure

  2. Challenge established norms and ways of thinking

  3. Cultivate a mindset of continuous learning and experimentation

  4. Persist in the face of setbacks and criticism

This perspective on innovation as an identity rather than just a process or outcome can be empowering. It suggests that anyone can be an innovator if they're willing to adopt certain attitudes and behaviors, regardless of their specific role or industry.

Disruption and Self-Disruption:

  • Leaders need to be willing to disrupt themselves.

  • Innovation isn't about thinking, it's about acting. It involves deliberately exposing yourself to challenges and suffering.

  • Small experiments and actions are key to starting the disruption process.

Embracing Innovation's Challenges

The Willingness to Look Foolish

  • True innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort ("the darkness")

  • Focuses on identity rather than just outcomes

  • Requires qualities like curiosity, resilience, and risk-taking

Innovation as Universal Responsibility

  • Not a separate department but a mindset for everyone

  • Continuously asking how to improve

The Most Valuable Question

  • "What will you start today that scares you?"

  • Begins changing your story and challenging limits

Self-Disruption

  • The greatest challenge isn't scaling up (0 to 100)

  • It's having the courage to disrupt yourself and what's working (100 to 0)

Beyond Mountains

  • Success shouldn't breed complacency

  • There are always new heights after reaching what seemed like the summit

To Reach 5×, You Can’t Think 5 % Bigger—You Have to Go to Zero

Take any core process—finance approvals, R&D cycles, vessel maintenance—and ask: If we rebuilt this from scratch with today’s tech, what vanishes? What automates? What now demands more human warmth? Going “to zero” prevents incrementalism from smothering breakthroughs.

The Most Dangerous Person in the Room

It’s not the algorithm or the credentialed expert—it’s the individual who feels the fear, yet moves anyway. Bold + scared beats brilliant + stuck. Be that person, hire that person, partner with that person, and the future tips in your favor.

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