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The After Show

In the latest episode of The After Show, hosts dive into Shawn Kanungo's thought-provoking session at Levy

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KEY TAKEAWAYS (an AI-Output with Hallucinations)

AI AGENTS & AGentic workflows

  • n8n - Workflow automation

  • Cursor - Coding agent

  • Comet by Perplexity - Best Agentic Browser - browse the internet with AI and get stuff done

  • Lindy - Build an AI agent - great for AI automation

LLM

Text-to-App

  • Lovable - Build any app with agentic reasoning (best at front-end)

  • v0 by Vercel - Text-to-Webpage (really good front-end)

  • Replit - Idea-to-App (best for full app)

Text-to-IMAGE/VIDEO

Research & other

  • NotebookLM - Research and the two AI podcast hosts that you see above :)

  • Google AI Studio - Real-time AI co-presence

  • Clay - AI Outbound Sales | Generating lists of emails and sending cold outreach

  • Figjam - Whiteboarding Ideas | Brainstorming | Organizing

Briefing: Innovation, AI, and the Agentic Era

Executive Summary

This document synthesizes the core themes from innovation strategist Shawn Kanungo's analysis of the intersection between artificial intelligence, business strategy, and the hospitality industry. The central argument is that in an increasingly digital and AI-saturated world, the most valuable currency will be authentic human connection, making hospitality the definitive future of business. While AI is rapidly evolving from a content creation tool to a platform for fully "agentic" systems capable of autonomous decision-making, its proliferation will create a deep-seated craving for genuine, human-centric experiences.

Kanungo posits that the relentless pursuit of frictionless efficiency, while technologically impressive, often erodes the trust, story, and affinity that form the bedrock of strong brands. He introduces a counter-intuitive strategic imperative: the reintroduction of purposeful "friction"—elements that make experiences more meaningful, memorable, and magical. Innovation, in this new paradigm, is not primarily a technological challenge but a psychological one, comprising 90% psychology and 10% technology. The ultimate strategy is not found in a PowerPoint deck but in fostering a culture of deep care for employees, which in turn inspires them to create unparalleled experiences for customers. Leaders are challenged to disrupt their own successful models, moving from optimizing the past to creating the future by embracing a strategy that is energetic, bold, and "remarkably different."

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1. The Centrality of Hospitality in a Digital World

Kanungo's core thesis is that as digital interactions and AI-generated content become ubiquitous, human-centric experiences will become a critical differentiator and the foundation of future business success.

• Hospitality as the Future: In a world where individuals are "inundated" with technology, authentic human connection becomes a premium. Kanungo asserts, "My belief is that hospitality is the future, that in an AI world, in a digital world... hospitality is the future."

• The Craving for Authenticity: The internet is projected to be filled with "AI slop," creating a powerful societal desire for authentic connection. The food and beverage industry is uniquely positioned to fulfill this need because it inherently "brings people together."

• Bringing the "Soul" Back: The primary challenge for businesses is to "bring the soul back" into their operations and customer interactions. This involves prioritizing trust, which Kanungo calls "the ultimate currency."

2. The Trajectory and Impact of Artificial Intelligence

AI is undergoing a fundamental evolution from a passive tool to an active, autonomous agent, which will reshape how work is conceptualized and executed.

From Content Creation to Agentic Systems

• Phase 1 (2022-2024): AI innovation was largely focused on content creation, such as refining emails or summarizing conversations.

• Phase 2 (2024-Present): Organizations are now adopting AI and deriving tangible value.

• Phase 3 (Next Year): The future lies with "fully agentic organizations" that leverage AI agents with "agentic capabilities."

    ◦ Agency Defined: Kanungo defines agency as "the power to make decisions."

    ◦ True Agents: A true AI agent is described as being "24/7. It's always on. It works."

Practical AI Applications and Demonstrations

Kanungo provided several examples of how agentic AI can be implemented:

Application

Description

Tools Used

Key Insight

Netflix-Style Onboarding

An interactive, Netflix-style platform was created for new employees at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History to learn about HR, finance, and museum operations.

"Loveable" (a text-to-app generator)

"In 2025, the most dangerous skill in the world is just coming up with an idea." The AI handles the execution.

24/7 AI Agent

An AI agent was trained on all materials for the Baltimore Convention Centre, capable of answering complex technical questions (e.g., power capacities) in multiple languages.

Custom AI Agent

Anything digital—a website, an app, an image—can be replicated and reinvented by AI.

Synthetic Data Modeling

An AI prompt was used to generate a comprehensive synthetic data file of the Dodger Stadium customer experience, with 50,000 lines of fake data for scenario modeling.

"Claude" (an AI model)

Using synthetic data is one of the safest ways to experiment with AI tools and run models without risking existing information.

Redefining Work and Skills

• A New Mantra: The old advice was to "begin with the end in mind." With AI, the new approach is to "build with the end in mind," meaning one can generate 100 AI solutions as a starting point for creative problem-solving.

• Knowledge vs. Hunger: The long-held belief that "knowledge is power" is obsolete in an era of AI copilots. Today, power lies with people who are "hungry, people that can fight the status quo, people that are bold."

• Fear and Action: Fear of AI is directly correlated with a lack of engagement. Kanungo notes, "The reason why you were scared is because you haven't done the work yet." He urges the audience to "work scared until you become scary."

3. The Paradox of Efficiency: Friction vs. Frictionless

The modern obsession with creating seamless, frictionless experiences has an unintended consequence: it erodes the story, trust, and human connection that create brand affinity.

The Problem with Frictionless Experiences

• Erosion of Story: Kanungo uses the example of a Cheesecake Factory "ghost kitchen" located in an industrial park to illustrate how efficiency strips away the narrative and experience. He concludes, "I believe that you are eating the story."

• Rising Baseline Expectations: Technology has raised consumer expectations to an "nth degree." His children's impatience with AI image generation is contrasted with the week-long process of downloading a picture in the 1990s.

• The Loss of Trust: As technology removes human interaction (e.g., tapping a button for food delivery), it simultaneously reduces trust and affinity.

The Strategic Value of "The F Word": Friction

Kanungo advocates for strategically reintroducing friction to make experiences more human and valuable.

• Two Winning Models: In the future, two types of organizations will win:

    1. Fast and Frictionless: Companies that deliver on-demand efficiency.

    2. Slow and Experiential: Companies that deliberately slow things down to create meaningful, magical, and memorable moments (e.g., Four Seasons, Hermès, stadiums, Levy restaurants).

• Purposeful Friction: The goal is to make things "meaningful and magical and memorable and awe inspiring, surprising." This applies to operations, but the true value for customers is in the thoughtful, human-centric experiences.

4. Innovation Reimagined: 90% Psychology, 10% Technology

The greatest innovations are often rooted in a deep understanding of human psychology rather than purely in technological advancement.

"Innovation is 90% psychology and 10% technology. It's not saying, how do we make something more delightful, faster, better? It's how do we make something more delightful and meaningful and magical?"

Example

Psychological Principle

Outcome

Uber's "Fake" Progress Bar

Expectation Management. The countdown to finding a driver is a "facade" designed to provide certainty and reduce anxiety.

By setting and then exceeding manufactured expectations, Uber builds user trust and satisfaction.

Visionary Eye Centre "Hype Squad"

Infectious Energy. Employees act as a "hype squad," becoming collectively invested in the customer's purchase, creating an energetic and convincing experience.

The positive energy is a psychological innovation that requires no resources but drives sales and customer loyalty.

• Costly Signalling: To build true trust in a digital world, organizations must demonstrate "extraordinary effort." This concept is echoed by the artistic director of Hermès, who prioritizes craft and patience over the speed valued in industrial production.

• The Experience is the Brand: A brand is not a logo or a website; it is "the story that's embedded in the hearts and minds and souls of your clients, of your fans, of your customers."

5. The Ultimate Strategy: Deeply Caring and High Agency

The most powerful and effective business strategy is not a complex framework but a simple, human principle.

• The Core Principle: "The greatest strategy in the world is actually to deeply care, is to deeply care about the people around you, and in turn, they will care deeply about their fans."

• The Dubai Hotel Example: A hotel employee's dedication was traced back to a culture of deep care, exemplified by the hotel inviting the parents of all staff to stay for a weekend. The employee, Muhammad, felt deeply cared for, and his pride was palpable. This created the trust that ensured a guest would receive their wake-up call.

• Cultivating High-Agency People: To create "unstoppable people" who are "architects of their own outcomes," two elements are required:

    1. A culture of deep care.

    2. A willingness to embrace failure.

6. A New Framework for Strategy and Leadership

Strategy should be dynamic and inspiring, not a static document. Its purpose is to create energy and differentiation.

Strategy as Energy

• Beyond the PowerPoint: "Strategy is energy. Strategy is an imaginary theory that has to set people on fire... Strategy without energy is just called the PowerPoint."

• The Four Pillars of Energetic Strategy:

    1. Bold Ambition: A vision that sets the world on fire.

    2. Deep Understanding: A relentless focus on where the world, technology, and fans are going.

    3. Make It Personal: Empowering teams to embrace and own the strategy.

    4. Be Remarkably Different: Strategy is not about being the best; it's about being unique, or a "freak."

The Imperative of Self-Disruption

• 100 to Zero: While growing from zero to 100 is celebrated, the most difficult and rewarding journey is disrupting oneself—going from 100 to zero.

• The Coca-Cola Case: A Coca-Cola executive revealed the company's biggest disruptor was not a competitor like Prime, but its own "good leadership." The organization had become "so romantic about eMiciency" and optimization that it had lost its footing as a world-class marketing company and was struggling to become "remarkable again."

• Good vs. Remarkable Leaders: "Good leaders optimize the past... But remarkable leaders... they create the future because they're focussed on innovation."

The AI Revolution:

  • Generative AI's Potential: Shawn highlights how AI, especially generative AI, is transforming work by democratizing it. He draws parallels with the internet's impact on knowledge, emphasizing that AI will revolutionize how tasks are performed.

  • Generative AI Era (2023-2024)

    • Shawn recaps how ChatGPT launched in late 2022 and captured the world’s attention.

    • 2023 and 2024 became the era of “generative AI,” with widespread use of tools like ChatGPT for writing, image generation, deep fakes, etc.

    Transition to 2025: The Agentic Era

    • The speaker asserts that the “generative AI revolution” is now “over.”

    • We’re entering a new wave in 2025, referred to as the “agentic” revolution, or the agentic era.

    • Key premise: AI agents will be the next huge disruptor, providing 10x to 1000x the value of generative AI alone.

    Why Agents?

    • An agent is software that can autonomously perform tasks on behalf of humans—mimicking what human employees might do but never sleeping or stopping.

    • Nvidia’s CEO Jensen Huang repeatedly referenced “agents” in his CES talk, highlighting their importance.

    Agents as the New Conversational Layer

    • In the ’90s, businesses needed websites.

    • In the 2000s-2010s, businesses needed apps and social media channels.

    • In 2025 and beyond, agents will become a critical “conversational layer” for organizations (internally and externally).

    • Companies will race to build their own brand-specific AI agents, and the challenge will be how to differentiate those agents.

  • AI marks "the end of trust" as it becomes harder to distinguish between AI-generated and human-created content. Shawn warns about the erosion of trust due to AI's ability to create indistinguishable deep fakes and simulations.

  • Shift from Knowledge Workers to Value Creators: As AI becomes more embedded in businesses, the most valuable jobs will no longer be knowledge-based but will center around creating value in new and innovative ways. Leaders must focus on being innovators, not just managing efficiencies​

  • We live in an age of "infinite leverage" where individuals can do more with less using various tools and resources.

  • AI as a Starting Point: The concept "the end is now the beginning" highlights a shift in how we approach creative and development processes. Rather than seeing AI-generated outputs as final products, they are considered starting points that inspire and guide further human creativity.

  • AI is the next communication layer: Just like the internet, websites, and apps, AI agents will become ubiquitous, transforming how we interact with clients and information. Kanungo predicts, "By the end of next year, every company in this room will have one AI agent or multiple or hundreds."

  • Iterative Creation: By generating numerous initial ideas or drafts using AI, the creative process becomes iterative. This allows for a broad exploration of possibilities before honing in on the final deliverable through human refinement and creativity.

  • Rapid Prototyping: The example of generating a hundred websites, apps, or analyses with the help of AI emphasizes the efficiency and speed with which initial concepts can be developed. This rapid prototyping accelerates the innovation cycle.

  • Creative Catalyst: AI serves as a catalyst for innovation by providing a multitude of starting points. It breaks the traditional linear progression of project development and encourages a more dynamic and flexible approach

  • AI-Driven Efficiency: Tools like Midjourney can generate multiple creative options for advertisements in seconds, providing companies with the flexibility to test and optimize their campaigns efficiently

The Concept of DEEPLY CARING:

  • Reliability and genuine care are foundational to building trust, both in technology and human interactions.

  • Exceptional service goes beyond basic expectations, creating memorable experiences that differentiate a business.

  • Personalized attention and proactive problem-solving significantly enhance customer satisfaction and loyalty.

  • Investing in employee well-being and growth fosters a positive work culture, leading to increased job satisfaction and performance.

  • Recognizing and valuing employees' contributions, even extending to their families, can create strong emotional connections to the workplace.

  • Empowerment is a two-pronged approach: providing cutting-edge tools (like AI) and demonstrating deep care for individuals.

  • Genuine care is a strategic business advantage, driving both customer retention and employee innovation.

  • Creating a culture of care can transform service delivery, employee engagement, and ultimately, business outcomes.

  • The ripple effect of care extends beyond immediate interactions, influencing long-term relationships with both customers and employees.

  • Innovation thrives in environments where individuals feel valued, supported, and equipped with the right tools.

  • Care for Employees = Care for Customers: Organizations that deeply care for their employees tend to deliver superior customer service, as employee satisfaction directly translates to customer trust and satisfaction

    The Importance of Human-Centered Leadership

    • People Over Projects: A leadership philosophy that prioritizes people, such as letting employees take vacations despite client demands, fosters loyalty and long-term value for the business​.

    • High-Agency Cultures: Empowering people by combining technological tools with people-centric care creates "high-agency" employees who are proactive, innovative, and committed to the company’s mission​.

The Concept of Friction:

He advocates for maintaining trust through human-centric, meaningful, and memorable experiences.

  • Bringing Back Friction: In an increasingly frictionless world, Shawn argues for the value of friction in creating deeper, more authentic connections. He stresses that community management companies, unlike tech companies, thrive on trust and relationships, not just efficiency.

  • In a frictionless world, we need more friction.

  • Companies will win by being either extremely frictionless or extremely human - the middle ground is "the black hole of mediocrity."

Are you willing to look like a joke?

Shawn suggests that true innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort - what he calls "the darkness." This idea challenges the common view that innovation is solely about achieving specific outcomes or results.

By focusing on identity rather than outcomes, Kanungo seems to be advocating for a mindset shift. He's suggesting that being an innovator is more about who you are and how you approach challenges, rather than just what you produce. This approach emphasizes qualities like curiosity, resilience, and willingness to take risks.

The question "Are you willing to be the innovator?" is provocative. It asks whether one is ready to:

  1. Embrace uncertainty and potential failure

  2. Challenge established norms and ways of thinking

  3. Cultivate a mindset of continuous learning and experimentation

  4. Persist in the face of setbacks and criticism

This perspective on innovation as an identity rather than just a process or outcome can be empowering. It suggests that anyone can be an innovator if they're willing to adopt certain attitudes and behaviors, regardless of their specific role or industry.

Disruption and Self-Disruption:

  • Leaders need to be willing to disrupt themselves.

  • Innovation isn't about thinking, it's about acting. It involves deliberately exposing yourself to challenges and suffering.

  • Small experiments and actions are key to starting the disruption process.

Embracing Innovation's Challenges

The Willingness to Look Foolish

  • True innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort ("the darkness")

  • Focuses on identity rather than just outcomes

  • Requires qualities like curiosity, resilience, and risk-taking

Innovation as Universal Responsibility

  • Not a separate department but a mindset for everyone

  • Continuously asking how to improve

The Most Valuable Question

  • "What will you start today that scares you?"

  • Begins changing your story and challenging limits

Self-Disruption

  • The greatest challenge isn't scaling up (0 to 100)

  • It's having the courage to disrupt yourself and what's working (100 to 0)

Beyond Mountains

  • Success shouldn't breed complacency

  • There are always new heights after reaching what seemed like the summit

To Reach 5×, You Can’t Think 5 % Bigger—You Have to Go to Zero

Take any core process—finance approvals, R&D cycles, vessel maintenance—and ask: If we rebuilt this from scratch with today’s tech, what vanishes? What automates? What now demands more human warmth? Going “to zero” prevents incrementalism from smothering breakthroughs.

The Most Dangerous Person in the Room

It’s not the algorithm or the credentialed expert—it’s the individual who feels the fear, yet moves anyway. Bold + scared beats brilliant + stuck. Be that person, hire that person, partner with that person, and the future tips in your favor.

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