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The After Show

In the latest episode of The After Show, hosts dive into Shawn Kanungo's thought-provoking session at Leading Together

DOWNLOAD PRESENTATION (WARNING - THIS IS 2GB+)

KEY TAKEAWAYS (an AI-Output with Hallucinations)

AI AGENTS & AGentic workflows

  • Atlas - AI Browser by OpenAI

  • n8n - Workflow automation

  • Cursor - Coding agent

  • Comet by Perplexity - Best Agentic Browser - browse the internet with AI and get stuff done

  • Lindy - Build an AI agent - great for AI automation

LLM

  • OpenAI’s Deep Research - Absolutely the best research tool out there right now

  • Manus - Most comprehensive AI agent in my opinion

  • Claude Skills - Claude Skills is the best skills agent - this allows to be more deterministic with your agents.

  • Grok 4 - Equivalent to o3 from ChatGPT - awesome for X data

  • Gemini 2.5 - Incredible LLM

Text-to-App

  • Lovable - Build any app with agentic reasoning (best at front-end)

  • v0 by Vercel - Text-to-Webpage (really good front-end)

  • Replit - Idea-to-App (best for full app)

Text-to-IMAGE/VIDEO

Research & other

  • NotebookLM - Research and the two AI podcast hosts that you see above :)

  • Google AI Studio - Real-time AI co-presence

  • Clay - AI Outbound Sales | Generating lists of emails and sending cold outreach

  • Figjam - Whiteboarding Ideas | Brainstorming | Organizing

Briefing: Innovation, AI, and the Agentic Era

Executive Summary

This document synthesizes the core themes from a presentation by innovation strategist Michon New on the concept of "fearless government" in the age of Artificial Intelligence. The central argument is that AI is not merely a new tool but a revolutionary force that necessitates a complete reimagining of work, organizational design, and public service delivery.

The most critical takeaways are:

The Agentic Era of AI: AI has evolved from simple content creation to an "agentic era" of autonomous action, where software can "get stuff done." This represents a 100x to 1,000x increase in capability, providing governments with what is described as "infinite leverage" to do significantly more with fewer resources.

Reimagining the Work Process: The traditional project lifecycle is obsolete. Instead of "beginning with the end in mind" (visioning), organizations can now "build with the end in mind" by using AI to generate hundreds of initial reports, models, and assets that serve as the starting point for human creativity and refinement.

Cultivating Innovation Through Care and Failure: A true culture of innovation is not about technology but about identity. It rests on two pillars: a deep, authentic commitment to caring for people and a willingness to embrace failure. The speaker advocates for a "Universal Play Income"—empowering teams with resources to experiment without pressure for specific outcomes, as this fosters transformation and makes failure an enjoyable part of the process.

The Strategic Importance of "Friction": In a world obsessed with frictionless efficiency, public sector organizations must be deliberate about where to automate and where to slow down. While internal processes should be seamless, citizen-facing interactions must reintroduce "friction"—creating meaningful, memorable, and human-centric experiences that build trust.

The Mandate to "Disrupt Yourself": The greatest challenge is not growth (going from 0 to 100) but self-disruption (going from 100 to 0). This requires organizations to metaphorically blow up existing processes, start from a blank slate with current technology, and overcome a nostalgic attachment to past methods. The most valuable individual is the one who is afraid but bold enough to move forward.

1. The Dawn of the Agentic Era: AI's Evolving Capability

The presentation posits that the current AI revolution, particularly since late 2022, marks a fundamental shift from content creation to autonomous action. This new "agentic era" is defined by AI's power to act and execute tasks, unlocking extraordinary value for organizations.

From Thinking to Doing: For the first time, software can not only think like humans but also "get stuff done." This transition from passive analysis to active execution is described as being 100 to 1,000 times more impactful than the initial generative AI revolution.

The Spectrum of Agency: AI agency exists on a spectrum. On one end are large language models performing simple tasks like summarizing a conversation and sending an email. On the other end are "true agents"—24/7, always-on AIs that can make decisions. While true agents are still emerging, all platforms are becoming more "agentic" over time.

Demonstrated Use Cases in the Public Sector

The speaker provided several live demonstrations to illustrate AI's practical capabilities for municipalities like Simcoe County, the City of Barrie, and the Town of Innisville.

Onboarding Platform for Simcoe County:

    ◦ An AI was prompted to create a "Netflix style onboarding platform for new employees at Simcoe County," using the county's website for context.

    ◦ The AI first generated a superior prompt for the task.

    ◦ This refined prompt was then fed into a tool called "Loveable," which generated both the front-end application and the back-end infrastructure, providing an "incredible starting point" for what a new onboarding process could look like.

AI Agent for the City of Barrie:

    ◦ A custom, 24/7 AI agent was created to handle citizen inquiries.

    ◦ In a live demo, the agent correctly answered a complex question about garbage, battery, and fall yard waste collection schedules. It noted that due to postal issues, battery bags were not being mailed out and provided alternative solutions and pickup locations.

    ◦ The agent demonstrated multilingual capabilities by repeating the information in Japanese.

Financial Plan Analysis for the Town of Innisville:

    ◦ An active RFP for a "long range financial plan" for Innisville was downloaded.

    ◦ The PDF was fed into an AI (like Gemini or ChatGPT) with the prompt to act as a world-class strategist and financial analyst to not only analyze the RFP but to do the actual work.

    ◦ The research output was then used with Claude, an AI specializing in financial services, to create a 20-month financial model covering summaries, reserves, capital programs, and operating expenditures.

    ◦ It was noted that the original RFP cost was $60,000, and the AI-driven process completed at least half of the required work.

2. Reimagining Work: New Processes for a New Paradigm

AI's ability to produce high-quality outputs necessitates a fundamental shift in how work is initiated and managed. The traditional linear process of visioning, planning, and execution is being inverted.

"Build with the End in Mind": The old adage was to "begin with the end in mind." The new paradigm is to "build with the end in mind." This means starting the creative process not with a blank page, but with a portfolio of 100 AI-generated tools, assets, and reports, which then serve as the foundation for human refinement.

Rethinking the RFP Process: Instead of issuing an RFP that outlines a need, a government entity can now present what AI has already created as a baseline. The new request becomes: "This is what AI has already created, and this is the maximum of what I've reached. Now help me." This fundamentally changes the dynamic with vendors and consultants.

The Most Dangerous Skill: In this new environment, the speaker asserts that "in 2025, the most dangerous skill in the world is just coming up with an idea."

3. The Human Element in an AI-Driven World

The presentation directly addresses the anxieties and profound societal implications surrounding AI, arguing for a perspective of empowerment while acknowledging significant risks.

The Future of Work: Empowerment Over Replacement:

    ◦ The prevailing question, "Will AI take our jobs?", is framed as unproductive. The more resonant statement is, "AI allows you to do any job."

    ◦ AI acts as a specialist that enables individuals to transcend their roles: a designer can become an engineer, an accountant a marketer.

    ◦ The source of power is no longer knowledge, which is now commoditized by AI copilots. Power now belongs to those who are "hungry, people that can innovate, people that can fight the status quo, people that are fearless."

The Erosion of Trust: The most significant negative implication of AI is that it "marks the end of trust." The proliferation of sophisticated audio and video deepfakes, exponential scams, and synthetic relationships will make it increasingly difficult to discern what is real. This poses a fundamental threat to the trust required for a functional society and innovation.

The Dichotomy of Trust: Reliable Tech and Cared-For People: In this new world, the speaker claims to only trust two things:

    1. Incredibly Reliable Technology: As exemplified by the multiple, redundant alarms on an iPhone.

    2. People Who Are Deeply Cared For: As exemplified by the anecdote of the hotel in Dubai.

4. The Philosophy of Modern Governance

AI provides a new lens through which to view the challenges of public administration, particularly the mandate to "do more with less." This requires a strategic balance between ruthless efficiency and profound humanity.

The Principle of "Infinite Leverage": Governments now operate in a world of "infinite leverage." This leverage can be applied through:

    ◦ People: Choreographing multiple brains and teams.

    ◦ Media: Telling better narratives to citizens.

    ◦ Software: Creating automated workflows.

    ◦ AI Models: Employing "tireless analysts."

    ◦ AI Agents: Deploying armies of agents.

    ◦ The higher an organization ascends this pyramid of leverage, the fewer resources it requires. The conclusion is that today, government "can do way more with way less."

5. The Human-Centric Strategy: Deep Care and Empowerment

The antidote to eroding trust and the key to creating meaningful friction is a renewed focus on the human element, both for members and employees.

The Foundations of Trust: True trust is built on only two things: incredibly reliable technology and people who are deeply cared for.

The Dubai Hotel Example: A story was shared of a hotel that offered to gently knock on a guest's door if they missed their wake-up call. This extraordinary level of service was a direct result of the hotel's culture of care for its employees—it had previously invited all staff members' parents for a weekend stay to show them the opportunities available to their children.

The Ultimate Strategy: This illustrates the ultimate business principle: "The greatest strategy in the world [is] to deeply care. It's deeply care about the people around you and in turn, they will care deeply about the people around them."

Redesigning Organizations Around People: Historically, organizations have been designed like assembly lines for the sake of efficiency. AI automates routine tasks, freeing organizations to redesign themselves around the unique gifts of "scary good" people, as the software can now adapt to the human, not the other way around.

6. The Call to Action: Disrupt Yourself

To thrive, organizations cannot simply adopt new tools; they must be willing to fundamentally change their identity and processes.

From 100 to Zero: The most difficult challenge is not growing from zero to 100, but being willing to go from 100 back to zero—to disrupt a successful model and become a rookie again. This involves "starting from zero" on every process, asking how it would be built from scratch with today's tools. This approach doesn't yield 5% improvements; it yields 5x improvements.

The Danger of "Good Leadership": The story of Coca-Cola highlights a key risk. A Coca-Cola executive admitted their biggest disruptor was not a competitor, but their own "good leadership," which had become so focused on optimization and efficiency that the company lost its "remarkable" marketing edge.

Nostalgia vs. Innovation: Nostalgia for what worked in the past is a barrier to innovation. "Good leaders optimize the past... But remarkable leaders, remarkable leaders create the future because they're focussed on innovation."

The Innovator's Identity: Innovation is not an outcome or a product; it is an identity. It is the willingness to suffer, to be scared, and to look like a joke in pursuit of creating the future. The final charge is a reminder that progress is made by those who are simultaneously afraid and courageous:

The AI Revolution:

  • Generative AI's Potential: Shawn highlights how AI, especially generative AI, is transforming work by democratizing it. He draws parallels with the internet's impact on knowledge, emphasizing that AI will revolutionize how tasks are performed.

  • Generative AI Era (2023-2024)

    • Shawn recaps how ChatGPT launched in late 2022 and captured the world’s attention.

    • 2023 and 2024 became the era of “generative AI,” with widespread use of tools like ChatGPT for writing, image generation, deep fakes, etc.

    Transition to 2025: The Agentic Era

    • The speaker asserts that the “generative AI revolution” is now “over.”

    • We’re entering a new wave in 2025, referred to as the “agentic” revolution, or the agentic era.

    Key premise: AI agents will be the next huge disruptor, providing 10x to 1000x the value of generative AI alone.

    Why Agents?

    • An agent is software that can autonomously perform tasks on behalf of humans—mimicking what human employees might do but never sleeping or stopping.

    • Nvidia’s CEO Jensen Huang repeatedly referenced “agents” in his CES talk, highlighting their importance.

    Agents as the New Conversational Layer

    • In the ’90s, businesses needed websites.

    • In the 2000s-2010s, businesses needed apps and social media channels.

    • In 2025 and beyond, agents will become a critical “conversational layer” for organizations (internally and externally).

    • Companies will race to build their own brand-specific AI agents, and the challenge will be how to differentiate those agents.

  • AI marks "the end of trust" as it becomes harder to distinguish between AI-generated and human-created content. Shawn warns about the erosion of trust due to AI's ability to create indistinguishable deep fakes and simulations.

  • Shift from Knowledge Workers to Value Creators: As AI becomes more embedded in businesses, the most valuable jobs will no longer be knowledge-based but will center around creating value in new and innovative ways. Leaders must focus on being innovators, not just managing efficiencies​

  • We live in an age of "infinite leverage" where individuals can do more with less using various tools and resources.

  • AI as a Starting Point: The concept "the end is now the beginning" highlights a shift in how we approach creative and development processes. Rather than seeing AI-generated outputs as final products, they are considered starting points that inspire and guide further human creativity.

  • AI is the next communication layer: Just like the internet, websites, and apps, AI agents will become ubiquitous, transforming how we interact with clients and information. Kanungo predicts, "By the end of next year, every company in this room will have one AI agent or multiple or hundreds."

  • Iterative Creation: By generating numerous initial ideas or drafts using AI, the creative process becomes iterative. This allows for a broad exploration of possibilities before honing in on the final deliverable through human refinement and creativity.

  • Rapid Prototyping: The example of generating a hundred websites, apps, or analyses with the help of AI emphasizes the efficiency and speed with which initial concepts can be developed. This rapid prototyping accelerates the innovation cycle.

  • Creative Catalyst: AI serves as a catalyst for innovation by providing a multitude of starting points. It breaks the traditional linear progression of project development and encourages a more dynamic and flexible approach

  • AI-Driven Efficiency: Tools like Midjourney can generate multiple creative options for advertisements in seconds, providing companies with the flexibility to test and optimize their campaigns efficiently

The Concept of DEEPLY CARING:

  • Reliability and genuine care are foundational to building trust, both in technology and human interactions.

  • Exceptional service goes beyond basic expectations, creating memorable experiences that differentiate a business.

  • Personalized attention and proactive problem-solving significantly enhance customer satisfaction and loyalty.

  • Investing in employee well-being and growth fosters a positive work culture, leading to increased job satisfaction and performance.

  • Recognizing and valuing employees' contributions, even extending to their families, can create strong emotional connections to the workplace.

  • Empowerment is a two-pronged approach: providing cutting-edge tools (like AI) and demonstrating deep care for individuals.

  • Genuine care is a strategic business advantage, driving both customer retention and employee innovation.

  • Creating a culture of care can transform service delivery, employee engagement, and ultimately, business outcomes.

  • The ripple effect of care extends beyond immediate interactions, influencing long-term relationships with both customers and employees.

  • Innovation thrives in environments where individuals feel valued, supported, and equipped with the right tools.

  • Care for Employees = Care for Customers: Organizations that deeply care for their employees tend to deliver superior customer service, as employee satisfaction directly translates to customer trust and satisfaction

    The Importance of Human-Centered Leadership

    • People Over Projects: A leadership philosophy that prioritizes people, such as letting employees take vacations despite client demands, fosters loyalty and long-term value for the business​.

    • High-Agency Cultures: Empowering people by combining technological tools with people-centric care creates "high-agency" employees who are proactive, innovative, and committed to the company’s mission​.

The Concept of Friction:

He advocates for maintaining trust through human-centric, meaningful, and memorable experiences.

  • Bringing Back Friction: In an increasingly frictionless world, Shawn argues for the value of friction in creating deeper, more authentic connections. He stresses that community management companies, unlike tech companies, thrive on trust and relationships, not just efficiency.

  • In a frictionless world, we need more friction.

  • Companies will win by being either extremely frictionless or extremely human - the middle ground is "the black hole of mediocrity."

Are you willing to look like a joke?

Shawn suggests that true innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort - what he calls "the darkness." This idea challenges the common view that innovation is solely about achieving specific outcomes or results.

By focusing on identity rather than outcomes, Kanungo seems to be advocating for a mindset shift. He's suggesting that being an innovator is more about who you are and how you approach challenges, rather than just what you produce. This approach emphasizes qualities like curiosity, resilience, and willingness to take risks.

The question "Are you willing to be the innovator?" is provocative. It asks whether one is ready to:

  1. Embrace uncertainty and potential failure

  2. Challenge established norms and ways of thinking

  3. Cultivate a mindset of continuous learning and experimentation

  4. Persist in the face of setbacks and criticism

This perspective on innovation as an identity rather than just a process or outcome can be empowering. It suggests that anyone can be an innovator if they're willing to adopt certain attitudes and behaviors, regardless of their specific role or industry.

Disruption and Self-Disruption:

  • Leaders need to be willing to disrupt themselves.

  • Innovation isn't about thinking, it's about acting. It involves deliberately exposing yourself to challenges and suffering.

  • Small experiments and actions are key to starting the disruption process.

Embracing Innovation's Challenges

The Willingness to Look Foolish

  • True innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort ("the darkness")

  • Focuses on identity rather than just outcomes

  • Requires qualities like curiosity, resilience, and risk-taking

Innovation as Universal Responsibility

  • Not a separate department but a mindset for everyone

  • Continuously asking how to improve

The Most Valuable Question

  • "What will you start today that scares you?"

  • Begins changing your story and challenging limits

Self-Disruption

  • The greatest challenge isn't scaling up (0 to 100)

  • It's having the courage to disrupt yourself and what's working (100 to 0)

Beyond Mountains

  • Success shouldn't breed complacency

  • There are always new heights after reaching what seemed like the summit

To Reach 5×, You Can’t Think 5 % Bigger—You Have to Go to Zero

Take any core process—finance approvals, R&D cycles, vessel maintenance—and ask: If we rebuilt this from scratch with today’s tech, what vanishes? What automates? What now demands more human warmth? Going “to zero” prevents incrementalism from smothering breakthroughs.

The Most Dangerous Person in the Room

It’s not the algorithm or the credentialed expert—it’s the individual who feels the fear, yet moves anyway. Bold + scared beats brilliant + stuck. Be that person, hire that person, partner with that person, and the future tips in your favor.

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