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The After Show

In the latest episode of The After Show, hosts dive into Shawn Kanungo's thought-provoking session at CSAE

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KEY TAKEAWAYS (an AI-Output with Hallucinations)

AI AGENTS & AGentic workflows

  • Atlas - AI Browser by OpenAI

  • n8n - Workflow automation

  • Cursor - Coding agent

  • Comet by Perplexity - Best Agentic Browser - browse the internet with AI and get stuff done

  • Lindy - Build an AI agent - great for AI automation

LLM

  • OpenAI’s Deep Research - Absolutely the best research tool out there right now

  • Manus - Most comprehensive AI agent in my opinion

  • Claude Skills - Claude Skills is the best skills agent

  • Grok 4 - Equivalent to o3 from ChatGPT - awesome for X data

  • Gemini 2.5 - Incredible LLM

Text-to-App

  • Lovable - Build any app with agentic reasoning (best at front-end)

  • v0 by Vercel - Text-to-Webpage (really good front-end)

  • Replit - Idea-to-App (best for full app)

Text-to-IMAGE/VIDEO

Research & other

  • NotebookLM - Research and the two AI podcast hosts that you see above :)

  • Google AI Studio - Real-time AI co-presence

  • Clay - AI Outbound Sales | Generating lists of emails and sending cold outreach

  • Figjam - Whiteboarding Ideas | Brainstorming | Organizing

Briefing: Innovation, AI, and the Agentic Era

Executive Summary

This document synthesizes the core themes from innovation strategist Shawn Kanungo's analysis of the current AI revolution and its implications for business, leadership, and society. The central argument is that while we are entering a new "Agentic Era"—where AI transitions from content creation to autonomous action—the most durable competitive advantage will not be technology itself, but rather a renewed focus on uniquely human qualities. As AI automates and replicates digital experiences, value will migrate toward trust, authenticity, community, and "friction"—the deliberate slowing down of processes to create meaningful, memorable moments.

For organizations, particularly associations, this presents a critical strategic choice. The future will be dominated by two models: the hyper-efficient and frictionless, and the experiential and human-centric. The latter represents the greatest opportunity for associations, whose core business is trust and community. Success in this new landscape requires leaders to overcome fear through immersion, leverage AI as a starting point for creativity rather than a final solution, and build a culture of "deep care." The ultimate call to action is for personal and organizational disruption: a willingness to "unlearn" past successes, adopt a "start from zero" mindset, and become a "rookie again" to navigate an era of unprecedented change.

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1. The Current State: The AI Revolution and the "Agentic Era"

The conversation around AI has fundamentally shifted. While the past three years focused on content creation, the next phase, beginning in 2025, is defined as the "Agentic Era." This era is characterized by software that can not only think but also act and "get stuff done," unlocking extraordinary value for organizations.

Definition of Agency: Agency is defined as "the power to act." For the first time, software possesses this capability.

The Spectrum of Agency: There is a range of agentic capabilities:

    ◦ Large Language Model Workflow: Predefined recipes, such as a bot that summarizes a conversation and sends an email.

    ◦ Agentic Workflow: More advanced, but still guided processes. Kanungo notes that most current advanced capabilities fall into this category.

    ◦ True Agent: An "always on" system that does not ask for permission but simply completes tasks. While not yet fully realized, this is the ultimate direction of the technology.

Ubiquity of AI: The pervasiveness of AI is undeniable. As an example, the CEO of Google, Sundar Pichai, mentioned the word "AI" 34 times at a recent developers' conference, a frequency that corresponded with a $37 billion increase in Google's stock value that day.

2. Practical AI Applications and Reimagined Workflows

AI's potential is not theoretical; it is already capable of replicating and reinventing existing digital assets, from websites to marketing campaigns. The most dangerous skill in 2025 is simply "coming up with an idea," as AI can rapidly execute on it.

Tool/Platform Used

Application Demonstrated

Association/Brand Example

Lovable

Text-to-application creation with both front-end and back-end capabilities.

Built a "Netflix style onboarding platform" for new members of the Tire and Rubber Association of Canada.

Agent-based AI

An "always on, 24/7" agent that can answer complex questions without error.

Created an agent for Explore Edmonton to provide event planning recommendations.

Midjourney, Gemini Nano, Runway

Replicating a high-end creative ad by generating images and video from text prompts and photos.

Created a professional-quality Gucci ad featuring a picture of the speaker's wife.

Synthetic Data Generation

Creating a realistic but entirely fake dataset to enable AI experimentation without privacy concerns.

Generated a synthetic member data file for the Building Owners and Managers Association of Canada.

This capability fundamentally alters traditional workflows. The old model of "begin with the end in mind" is replaced with "build with the end in mind." Instead of planning and then creating one final product, teams can now start with 100 AI-generated versions, using them as the basis for a faster, more informed creative and production process. It is emphasized that "AI is never the final solution, but it can be the starting point."

3. The Human Response to the AI Revolution

The widespread adoption of AI has generated significant anxiety about job security and the future of work. However, the narrative of displacement is challenged by one of empowerment and skill transformation.

Overcoming Fear: Fear of AI is directly correlated with a lack of hands-on experience. Every individual who immerses themselves in the technology becomes proficient and empowered, shifting their focus from "will this take my job?" to "what can I build?" The advice given is to "work scared until you become scary."

Redefining Job Roles: The more accurate framing is not that AI will take jobs, but that "AI allows you to do any job." It breaks down professional silos, enabling a plumber to become a coder or an association executive to become an accountant. This is exemplified by the NVIDIA CEO's prediction that the next generation of millionaires will be plumbers and electricians, highlighting a growing need for skilled trades that AI complements rather than replaces.

The New Definition of Power: The adage "knowledge is power" is now obsolete. In a world where everyone has an AI co-pilot, access to information is democratized. Power now lies with individuals who are "hungry" and who "can innovate."

4. The Crisis of Trust and the Counter-Movement of "Friction"

While AI offers immense potential, it also poses significant threats that strike at the core of social cohesion: trust. The ability to create deepfakes, scalable scams, and widespread misinformation necessitates a new level of caution, such as using family "safe words" to verify identity.

This erosion of trust is compounded by technology's relentless drive for efficiency, which turns interactions into transactions. This "frictionless" world, from food delivery to online shopping, removes human context and connection.

The "F Word" is Friction: The proposed antidote to this trend is to intentionally reintroduce friction. This means creating experiences that are "meaningful and magical and memorable."

Two Winning Organizational Models: In the future, two types of organizations will succeed:

    1. Fast and Frictionless: Businesses built on hyper-efficiency and on-demand service (e.g., Amazon, McDonald's).

    2. Slow and Experiential: Businesses that deliberately slow things down to focus on experience, moments, and human connection.

The "Anti-Trends" of 2026: In a world saturated with "premium AI slop," the most valuable and competitive ventures will be those that are difficult to automate. These include:

    ◦ In-person events

    ◦ Curated small-group experiences

    ◦ Scarcity and exclusivity

    ◦ Physical, handmade items

    ◦ Authentic video storytelling

5. Strategic Imperatives for Associations

Associations are uniquely positioned to thrive in this new environment because their fundamental business—building trust, community, and membership—directly aligns with the "anti-trends."

The New Competition: The biggest competitors for associations are not other associations, but individual creators and influencers (e.g., Andrew Huberman, MrBeast, Joe Rogan) who are building massive, loyal communities and are seen as trusted sources. People ultimately trust people.

The Path Forward: Partnership: Instead of competing with these new figures of trust, associations should partner with them and empower their own members to become advocates and storytellers.

The Power of Costly Signaling: To stand out, organizations must engage in "costly signaling"—the act of putting in extraordinary, inefficient human effort to demonstrate commitment and create meaning. "Delight is inefficient."

6. The Ultimate Strategy: Deep Care and The Agentic Enterprise

The single greatest strategy in a world of AI is not technology but "deeply care." This concept was illustrated with a story about a hotel in Dubai where the staff was so well-cared for—including an event where the parents of all staff were invited to stay at the hotel—that their commitment to guests was palpable and guaranteed.

Trust and Reliability: In life, we only trust two things: "incredibly reliable technology and people that are deeply cared for."

Designing Organizations Around People: For the first time in history, there is an opportunity to design organizations around people instead of systems. This means identifying each team member's "personal moat"—their unique, unfair advantage and skill set that makes them hard to replace.

The True Agentic Enterprise: An agentic enterprise is not one that simply uses AI. It is an organization that "amplifies the unique gifts of everyone on the team." It has the power to act because its people are empowered.

7. Call to Action: The Necessity of Self-Disruption

The greatest barrier to future success is nostalgia and a reluctance to abandon the strategies of the past. The path forward requires a conscious decision to unlearn and reinvent.

Letting Go of Ego: Citing Carl Jung, Kanungo notes that the first half of life is about developing a healthy ego, and the second half is about letting it go. Leaders must be willing to let go of what made them successful.

Unlearning Over Upskilling: The challenge is not about upskilling with new AI tools, but about unlearning old processes and assumptions.

Be a Rookie Again: Leaders must adopt a "start from zero" mindset. This involves asking: Knowing everything we know today, how would we reinvent our processes, our marketing, or our entire organization?

The Real Catalyst: A speech is not a catalyst for change. The only true catalyst is "evidence," "receipts," and "putting in the work" every single day. The most dangerous person is not the one with all the answers, but "the person who is most afraid, yet bold enough to move forward."

The AI Revolution:

  • Generative AI's Potential: Shawn highlights how AI, especially generative AI, is transforming work by democratizing it. He draws parallels with the internet's impact on knowledge, emphasizing that AI will revolutionize how tasks are performed.

  • Generative AI Era (2023-2024)

    • Shawn recaps how ChatGPT launched in late 2022 and captured the world’s attention.

    • 2023 and 2024 became the era of “generative AI,” with widespread use of tools like ChatGPT for writing, image generation, deep fakes, etc.

    Transition to 2025: The Agentic Era

    • The speaker asserts that the “generative AI revolution” is now “over.”

    • We’re entering a new wave in 2025, referred to as the “agentic” revolution, or the agentic era.

    Key premise: AI agents will be the next huge disruptor, providing 10x to 1000x the value of generative AI alone.

    Why Agents?

    • An agent is software that can autonomously perform tasks on behalf of humans—mimicking what human employees might do but never sleeping or stopping.

    • Nvidia’s CEO Jensen Huang repeatedly referenced “agents” in his CES talk, highlighting their importance.

    Agents as the New Conversational Layer

    • In the ’90s, businesses needed websites.

    • In the 2000s-2010s, businesses needed apps and social media channels.

    • In 2025 and beyond, agents will become a critical “conversational layer” for organizations (internally and externally).

    • Companies will race to build their own brand-specific AI agents, and the challenge will be how to differentiate those agents.

  • AI marks "the end of trust" as it becomes harder to distinguish between AI-generated and human-created content. Shawn warns about the erosion of trust due to AI's ability to create indistinguishable deep fakes and simulations.

  • Shift from Knowledge Workers to Value Creators: As AI becomes more embedded in businesses, the most valuable jobs will no longer be knowledge-based but will center around creating value in new and innovative ways. Leaders must focus on being innovators, not just managing efficiencies​

  • We live in an age of "infinite leverage" where individuals can do more with less using various tools and resources.

  • AI as a Starting Point: The concept "the end is now the beginning" highlights a shift in how we approach creative and development processes. Rather than seeing AI-generated outputs as final products, they are considered starting points that inspire and guide further human creativity.

  • AI is the next communication layer: Just like the internet, websites, and apps, AI agents will become ubiquitous, transforming how we interact with clients and information. Kanungo predicts, "By the end of next year, every company in this room will have one AI agent or multiple or hundreds."

  • Iterative Creation: By generating numerous initial ideas or drafts using AI, the creative process becomes iterative. This allows for a broad exploration of possibilities before honing in on the final deliverable through human refinement and creativity.

  • Rapid Prototyping: The example of generating a hundred websites, apps, or analyses with the help of AI emphasizes the efficiency and speed with which initial concepts can be developed. This rapid prototyping accelerates the innovation cycle.

  • Creative Catalyst: AI serves as a catalyst for innovation by providing a multitude of starting points. It breaks the traditional linear progression of project development and encourages a more dynamic and flexible approach

  • AI-Driven Efficiency: Tools like Midjourney can generate multiple creative options for advertisements in seconds, providing companies with the flexibility to test and optimize their campaigns efficiently

The Concept of DEEPLY CARING:

  • Reliability and genuine care are foundational to building trust, both in technology and human interactions.

  • Exceptional service goes beyond basic expectations, creating memorable experiences that differentiate a business.

  • Personalized attention and proactive problem-solving significantly enhance customer satisfaction and loyalty.

  • Investing in employee well-being and growth fosters a positive work culture, leading to increased job satisfaction and performance.

  • Recognizing and valuing employees' contributions, even extending to their families, can create strong emotional connections to the workplace.

  • Empowerment is a two-pronged approach: providing cutting-edge tools (like AI) and demonstrating deep care for individuals.

  • Genuine care is a strategic business advantage, driving both customer retention and employee innovation.

  • Creating a culture of care can transform service delivery, employee engagement, and ultimately, business outcomes.

  • The ripple effect of care extends beyond immediate interactions, influencing long-term relationships with both customers and employees.

  • Innovation thrives in environments where individuals feel valued, supported, and equipped with the right tools.

  • Care for Employees = Care for Customers: Organizations that deeply care for their employees tend to deliver superior customer service, as employee satisfaction directly translates to customer trust and satisfaction

    The Importance of Human-Centered Leadership

    • People Over Projects: A leadership philosophy that prioritizes people, such as letting employees take vacations despite client demands, fosters loyalty and long-term value for the business​.

    • High-Agency Cultures: Empowering people by combining technological tools with people-centric care creates "high-agency" employees who are proactive, innovative, and committed to the company’s mission​.

The Concept of Friction:

He advocates for maintaining trust through human-centric, meaningful, and memorable experiences.

  • Bringing Back Friction: In an increasingly frictionless world, Shawn argues for the value of friction in creating deeper, more authentic connections. He stresses that community management companies, unlike tech companies, thrive on trust and relationships, not just efficiency.

  • In a frictionless world, we need more friction.

  • Companies will win by being either extremely frictionless or extremely human - the middle ground is "the black hole of mediocrity."

Are you willing to look like a joke?

Shawn suggests that true innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort - what he calls "the darkness." This idea challenges the common view that innovation is solely about achieving specific outcomes or results.

By focusing on identity rather than outcomes, Kanungo seems to be advocating for a mindset shift. He's suggesting that being an innovator is more about who you are and how you approach challenges, rather than just what you produce. This approach emphasizes qualities like curiosity, resilience, and willingness to take risks.

The question "Are you willing to be the innovator?" is provocative. It asks whether one is ready to:

  1. Embrace uncertainty and potential failure

  2. Challenge established norms and ways of thinking

  3. Cultivate a mindset of continuous learning and experimentation

  4. Persist in the face of setbacks and criticism

This perspective on innovation as an identity rather than just a process or outcome can be empowering. It suggests that anyone can be an innovator if they're willing to adopt certain attitudes and behaviors, regardless of their specific role or industry.

Disruption and Self-Disruption:

  • Leaders need to be willing to disrupt themselves.

  • Innovation isn't about thinking, it's about acting. It involves deliberately exposing yourself to challenges and suffering.

  • Small experiments and actions are key to starting the disruption process.

Embracing Innovation's Challenges

The Willingness to Look Foolish

  • True innovation requires embracing uncertainty and discomfort ("the darkness")

  • Focuses on identity rather than just outcomes

  • Requires qualities like curiosity, resilience, and risk-taking

Innovation as Universal Responsibility

  • Not a separate department but a mindset for everyone

  • Continuously asking how to improve

The Most Valuable Question

  • "What will you start today that scares you?"

  • Begins changing your story and challenging limits

Self-Disruption

  • The greatest challenge isn't scaling up (0 to 100)

  • It's having the courage to disrupt yourself and what's working (100 to 0)

Beyond Mountains

  • Success shouldn't breed complacency

  • There are always new heights after reaching what seemed like the summit

To Reach 5×, You Can’t Think 5 % Bigger—You Have to Go to Zero

Take any core process—finance approvals, R&D cycles, vessel maintenance—and ask: If we rebuilt this from scratch with today’s tech, what vanishes? What automates? What now demands more human warmth? Going “to zero” prevents incrementalism from smothering breakthroughs.

The Most Dangerous Person in the Room

It’s not the algorithm or the credentialed expert—it’s the individual who feels the fear, yet moves anyway. Bold + scared beats brilliant + stuck. Be that person, hire that person, partner with that person, and the future tips in your favor.

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